James Duffy, VP IFTI PROvision, and Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network, discuss how Matterport professional can extend their services and generate extra revenue by scanning “As Builts”
If you’d like to join IFTI PROvision as a Matterport Technician, reach out to James Duffy at 1-800-490-3657 or James.Duffy@ifti.com.
Watch the video interview on youtube here:
Or read the full transcript here:
– Hi all, I’m Dan Smigrod, Founder of the We Get Around Network Forum. Today is Tuesday March 24th 2020, and you’re watching WGAN-TV Live at 5. We have a great show for you today, How Matterport Service Providers Can Make Money Scanning for As-Builts. Hey James, will introduce James in a moment but a wave to there.
– Hi everybody.
– We’re going to cover today what is an As-Built, what problems does an As-Built solve, who are the stakeholders, the users of As-Builts, how As-Builts are used before Matterport and MatterPak, how are As-Builts created, how an As-Built is created now, how Matterport Service Providers help with the As-Built creation.
We have a whole list of questions, and that’s for our subject matter expert today, which is James Duffy, he’s vice president business develop for I-F-T-I for IFTI, and IFTI PROVision division. Hey James there, good to officially see you on the show today.
– Yes Dan, thank you very much for having me. And yes, hello audience, and looking forward to sharing some of the knowledge and information that we have to your audience.
– Great, before I jump in with this litany of questions for you about As-Builts, first, how about giving us some context for IFTI and its division, PROVision?
– Oh, sure Dan. Yeah, so, thank you very much.
So, IFTI actually stands for Independent Floor Testing & Inspection, so what that has to do with Matterport is absolutely nothing until we get to it.
So just to give you context, we’ve been around for over 20 years, providing nationwide services in the flooring industry, doing concrete moisture testing. So we’ve been working in the retail and restaurant industry for 20 plus years servicing their floor, and throughout the US and Canada.
And over the past couple of years, that word independent and the trust that we built as a provider, they started to ask us to capture information while we’re on site, most of the time during remodels and refreshes, general improvement due diligence.
So rather than just taking pictures with phones, we looked and did our research on what we’d like to do is offer a real solution for our retail clients.
And we fell upon Matterport cameras as the best in visual with also supplemental dimensional information that we thought we can really provide a value to our existing customers, and then growing that.
So over the past couple of years we added our provision division, have expanded our Network, including our current technicians and new ones and independent contractors to grow our Network and expand our service solutions to our clients.
– Terrific. So you offer IFTI, who offer one order, one quote, multiple markets. So you’re offering Matterport at scale, typically for the commercial space, typically retail stores across America?
– Typically, the answer is yes. What most of them really like, and besides that they already know us and they’re familiar with our work is that consistency at scale.
And then if you can do that at a consistent price of fixed rate pricing, so they know for their budgets, what to expect. And then really, the nice thing is of the Matterport 3D solution is actually how they could get some of that money back from time saved on travel, change orders, that sort of thing.
– Terrific. So, today’s show How Matterport Service Providers Can Make Money Scanning As-Builts, why don’t we just begin with a basic question, I’m a Matterport Service Provider, I scan, I have no idea what it As-Built is. What is As-Built?
– Yeah, so in the most basic way an As-Built is just the current as is condition of space.
So when you walk in, and if you’ve ever heard that word before as is environment, like if you were buying a home, it’s basically the same thing in a retail space of, just think that these retailers or restaurants are moving things around from aisles to fixtures all of the time, differently than their remodel program where maybe every seven years.
So when it gets time to knowing that they want to move the space, whether it’s to sell, to release, to repurpose, they need to know the current condition, and that’s what it As-Built is. So not really in the in the visual like information, but also in the dimensional side of getting a floor plan.
– Well, if I just shoot a Matterport, is that an As-Built?
– So that’s a As-Built floor plan, but that the As-Built or for the architect. So they would need a CAD plan, at minimum, some were also using Revit models as a software. So it’s not enough, you need to take it another step to provide them the actual solution of the As-Built plan that an architect can use.
– So if the architect is working in Autodesk Revit, and I have a Matterport 3D Tour, how does the Matterport 3D Tour get into Revit?
– Yes, so the first thing is to scan the space, and to do it with as much skill and dexterity as you can. We have our own QC process where we make sure that the scan that is being delivered for that interior space doesn’t have any issues with it.
And then what we’ll also do is take field measurements while we’re there to verify, and then we utilize that point cloud that’s delivered from the MatterPak after you process it, and we’ll verify with our field tools, and then from that, we’ll move that into Autodesk, and we’ll create the As-Builts.
– Okay, so now we have what this space looks like in a three dimensional model in a CAD program that an architect likes to work in.
– Yes.
– When that space was built, wasn’t there a CAD file for that existing space?
– Well, that’s the interesting question. So this is something if you didn’t already know and it’s kind of welcome to the world we live in.
Real estate spaces change hands so many times, the floor plan of an existing space, whether it’s five years old or 50 years old, has changed hands, has changed the way it looks so many times that actually having the current plans is a lot harder to keep and hold as you might think.
So even when a leased space is transferred from the landlord to that current person, they only maybe keep the original floor plan of when they first made the space 20, 30 years ago, so it has no reflection really of what the space is today in terms of square footage, in terms of layouts, because they could have carved it and moved it around in so many ways that most of the time when it exchanges hands, there is not the current up to date model, which is why we would get called to find and verify As-Built.
But also even in existing space, is one company could hold a space for that same amount of time, five, 10, 20 years, and they’ve just lost track of it.
Different people have changed jobs and turnover, the knowledge has left from one person to another, and they’re kind of starting from scratch. So the need is always there to provide that As-Built to give them that visibility, right, when they need it, rather than trying to look forward and hope it’s the right one.
– And when is there a need for an As-Built?
– Yeah, so there’s many uses.
And there’s what we like to think of it, and for everyone, you know, at home to kind of figure out, throughout the space, there’s a whole, like, there’s a whole asset lifecycle.
So it’s from due diligence, which is maybe a place of considering a new space to go into, so a customer would want to find out to determine if they want to go into that space, does it fit their needs from a spatial standpoint, to existing construction, where they’re going to do a remodel or a tenant improvement after they have the space, to then know what like getting the basic building blocks, which is what an As-Built is.
And then facilities and maintenance, if they need to move something around while existing space. And then really to optimize it at the end like, usually in real estate, they’re either going to keep it or they’re going to move on from it.
So the disposal of that real estate, reselling it and repackaging, giving someone an As-Builts will only help their broker resell the space. So throughout the whole lifecycle an As-Built could be used.
– Thank you. So out of all those different use cases, what is typically a use case where someone’s willing to pay money in order to create that As-Built? What problem does somebody have that says, “We need an As-Built of our space.”
– Okay, so at all of those times that I mentioned, it is useful and people will pay for it. Now the nice thing is, before Matterport, before solution providers like IFTI were around and other ones, the only real sense you would have to do is send an architect or surveyor on site to go do it.
So the two problems with that is an architect, you can imagine the price tag is a little higher to get that person to go to a space, to deliver really what is only needed is basic plans, they don’t need full throated, you know, five layers of dimensions, you need a basic rudimentary plan.
Or a surveyor, which, you know, now if you’re talking scale in nationwide, travel is usually like indicated.
And the great part about Matterport and our Network is that we could work together on these for somebody that’s a nationwide client to deliver that kind of value, because the nice thing is for the providers that are out there and how we can work together, you should never have to get on an airplane again. And that eliminates that kind of costs in a hotel room, things like that.
– But before we go forward, let’s go back a little bit. So that architect, that surveyor showed up, they didn’t have a Matterport camera, what was the process like for them to construct an As-Built?
– Yes, so depending on how far back you want to go, they did have a measuring tool at some point, you know, a tape measure or something like that and a pad of paper, and they’re going around to create like a critical information of measurements.
So it could be the longest room, or the in every room that they walk in there, and they’re capturing all this on a piece of paper, and then they’re taking some pictures, and then they’re trying to replicate those dimensions of what they took, and to kind of piecemeal together a rudimentary drawing, and move that into AutoCAD, you know, or Revit model or anything like that.
So before, it was only one person, and you hope that they do their job with no oversight, that they captured all the right information, and were able to deliver and create that plan, because there’s missing context and you know, that’s really the way it was until the visibility plus dimensional information really helped give context to, not only what the As-Built looks like on a piece of paper, but really what it looks like in context of the as is environment.
– So why is Matterport plus the MatterPak in order to create the Autodesk Revit file better than an architect going out or a surveyor going out, taking measurements, taking lots of measurements, taking lots of pictures, then going back to their office, reconstructing that space?
– Yes, so.
– What’s wrong with that process?
– So the biggest thing of what you just described was, it sounded like three steps. So with using the Matterport, you can cut those steps to get the information to the architect.
So when you’re cutting steps that saves time and that saves money in respect to everyone. So by be able to delivering the scan and the MatterPak is a great building block for an architect that knows how to take that information and move that into Autodesk to create that to give them the building blocks they need to start and create the As-Built.
– If I’m an architect, am I making money on my time, and therefore Matterport is a threat to the architect based on how they do their billing today.
– So I would say in the customers that we’ve worked with, it’s gotten better over time. So when we first started doing this solution, and we were bringing it to architects, it was almost offensive, of how dare you get into our space, and this is how we make our money.
We have our low end, you know, coordinators that are coming on board to our firm going to the space, this is how we teach them. And, but what we’re saying is, well, we’re an alternative to that, but we can speed up your time, give you the visibility, save you the trip.
So over time, more and more of the end user clients who find this better because it’s more budget friendly, and it gives them other information that they could utilize beyond just the CAD plan, they get a visual of their space, great for facilities, great for, you know, a lot of other departments that are inside the space, they start to call more akin to leveraging this to help them be you know leaner, faster, better at what they do.
– So, the so the As-Built created from a Matterport scan using the MatterPak, is going to enable a scan to be, an As-Built to be created faster for less money? Is those key takeaways?
– Those are the key takeaways, and I think the basic thing of what everyone needs to realize for an As-Built of really what the Matterport does and what’s different from an architect because you still need an architect through almost every step of the way is, this tool is great for spatial planning.
So they can know they’re like the rudimentary stuff oF the size of the box, where the walls are, so they can see like a table fits in and everything else, further the find definition of centimeters of millwork, you know, the kind of work where they need to get that level of detail. That’s where the architect will still be needed to fill in those things when they do go on site for those more stringent field verifications.
But this is a great jumping off point, where if it saves one trip, and you know that cost is there, just think of the cost of that person to travel to get there, and then plus what their time is, like if they’re just doing one job rather than doing multiple projects.
– So I still want to understand the problems that Matterport solves. I’ve heard it in terms of architect, but maybe you could take us through either different scenarios or different stakeholders.
– Sure, yeah, so like I said before, like these scans when someone’s going there is giving you a snapshot in time, of a full space with full visible detail about what’s there.
So as I said, the lifecycle of that physical space, that assets, capturing that information, and if you don’t have to be on site to still get the same takeaway of context and comprehension, is very valuable.
So, for instance, if it’s construction, and you’re working during construction monitoring, say, of going into gather a scan, so a project manager doesn’t have to fly to a space to oversee general contractors work at a phase turnover, they can scan it, utilize it, and then from their desk, they can directly communicate with the general contractor on progress, what’s being done, and catching any problems before they arise. So like if there was a need, if they didn’t see it missing out on a change order, you know, that could save them a lot of money.
And then better part is, imagine when those people do go on site and they’re walking through a space to inspect something, they’re only walking through once.
So it’s up to their eyes at that specific moment in time to catch a problem or see a solution, when they have the Matterport scan, as long as they want to look at it, they can go back to it 50 times over to review the same thing. And it gives them a higher likelihood of success of catching something rather than just one quick walkthrough of a space.
So there’s construction, facilities, the same thing, walking through a space for preventative maintenance, understanding what’s going on, being able to catch a problem before it is or communicating with a vendor that has to go on site of what needs to happen because there’s a clear context of what it is because you can look at the scan from your desk and you can share that scan with a vendor while they’re on their phone in a space to make sure what’s being done is done in the right context and timeframe.
– James, these are all great examples, I think, of construction documentation and progress reporting, and starting to talk about some constituencies, but I still want to bring, and I’d love to do another show with you on that topic.
– Sure great.
– Of documentation progress reporting. But I want to still focus on As-Built, because I really want to understand, I think this is probably, this might be the easiest opportunity for a Matterport Service Provider to understand what problem that they solve, and what someone is willing to pay money for.
So, at the top of the show you were talking about some of the examples of how an As-Built is used. And I’m still looking for the key motivation, is it typically I’m about to go renovate a space?
– Yes, so for store planners and design, they have a new design for say, a remodeled of just like, you know, what a new retail site will look like.
And they’ll want to see that so to see if their design is going to work, how it’s going to fit and what the budgets going to be for it. They’ll need those As-Builts to understand the current condition and space layout of all the things. So when they move out, so pre-construction, site design, that As-Built is critical to help determine those budgets for store planners and designers before they even get started.
– So if we stay with that for a moment, pre-construction and site design, if the As-Built is ordered for that, then I suspect there’s tons of other uses, and there’s tons of users of that As-Built. But what I’m really trying to understand for the moment is pre-construction, site planning, are those the number one, number two reasons that a business would order an As-Built?
– Yes, so for store planning and design, they would order As-Built.
The stakeholders titles in these companies have changed from, you know, director of architecture for an end user, VP of construction, director of store planning of who would order those same things. But the idea is to get the visibility of the field on the field of what those things are. And they’re scaling those out, so you did one As-Built in Chicago, but they could have 500 going on across the country.
So when they’re looking at these, they’re determining what that budget is overall for that remodel program. So getting all of those plans together, where those things are is critical to start the process.
– So when you’re talking to a big brand, perhaps an enterprise brand, big brand, is it typical that they’re doing one location, or is it typical that they’re doing multiple locations across the United States?
– So it’s typical that they’re doing multiple locations across the United States. So a nice, a good easy way to think of this for the national enterprise ones is, if they have any brand, so say it’s one company X, and they have 1,000 stores, and their remodel program of taking those thousand stores and redoing them for their customers, for general maintenance, say is every seven years.
So every year, they’ll remodel of those thousand, say it’s, like you know, 200 of them. So every year, they’re going to do another batch of 200 to keep the lifecycle of them moving while they’re all scanning. So there’s always work to be done with these enterprise accounts because they’re constantly having to remodel. It’s not a zero sum game of one year and then on the seventh year, they’re happening year over year, and they’re happening all the time, which will allow for refreshes to change during those seven years of those 200, they can see a better concept that works out, trial them against each other.
So there’s constant work being done at those levels.
– So, awesome. So for the purpose of our discussion, maybe we’ll talk about that. It’s a big brand, they’re going to refresh 1,000 locations across the United States, they’re going to do 200 a year for five years.
And you want to be in there as the first person to talk to the client about this change in how they previously might have approached creating an As-Built, sending out an architect, sending out an architecture firm, sending out a surveyor to go do measurements.
It seems like that’s a key piece here is getting to the right person in the, before day one to be able to have this conversation about, hey, we can do this Matterport scan plus we got this data pack, we can convert it to an Autodesk Revit file, that will save you a lot of money, we’ll be able to create it for you way faster than somebody taking pictures, measurements and reconstructing it.
How do you go find the right person? Who is it? Is it at the company? Is it a general contractor? Is it an architect? Is it the person that owns the building, or company that owns the building, a REIT that owns the building? Is it a representative to the owner?
– So the good news and bad news is, it’s all of those things.
The bad news is it’s all of those things. So what I’ve learned is, since this is new for a lot of people, and you’re bringing on this technology for the first time, or if they’ve tried it maybe only in a scale and they haven’t seen an new solutions provider. it’s that level of trust of that some person that you know, that’s going to pass this information to the right person.
So you don’t have to feel like you have to get it in front of the right person to start. You need to be able to communicate what this is to that ambassador at that company to allow them to do the work. So it can start from one store at one location, I’m saying like a franchisee takes on a scan, which is separate from a corporate end company.
And they say, wow, that really helped with my As-Built, and that really sped things up on the time. Well, they all speak in their groups, and they share their information, because really what they want is what’s best for their company in themselves, and they’re two in the same thing.
So I’ve had it go from the bottom up, and from the top down, in terms of getting this visibility because the nice part is, this is a solution that changes, it’s an alternative solution.
And what they’ve never had before when they got the As-Built is something that the end user could actually use. So before those CAD plans for an As-Builts, just went to the architect, and it was a kind of a linear transaction and need, when you provide that scan, that visibility can actually be utilized for somebody else. And then there’s a residual solution that actually that helps solve, whether you know it or not. So it’s actually a great value add on top of the service that you’re already provided.
– So that kind of takes me in two directions of questions based on what you said. First, you started to talk a little bit earlier about the titles of people, maybe at the highest, at the top down, at the top, what are those titles of people’s.
I’m in Atlanta, there are a number of major big brands that are based in Atlanta that have lots of locations. If I was reaching out to the top, what would those titles look like? If I was reaching out to the bottom, what would those titles look like? Who is it that I’m trying to reach out to in those big brands that have multiple locations across the United States?
– Sure, so it’s director level and above that the corporate owns spaces. So it could be director of store planning and design, director of construction, director even a facilities, director of real estate for the corporate own.
And then for the lower level, the ones that you actually want to reach out to our project managers. Those are the people that actually have to do the work that you’re going to provide them of on the ground field verification, and it’s that solution if you reach out to them, they’re the ones that are going to see the best need and solution, and those are the people that are actually using that work once the As-Built is utilized of taking that scan to them, help push out the project to vendors getting bids, you know, for construction.
So those person, those people are actually the ones that are going to use it the most. The people at the higher level are the people that will see the value in terms of maybe its budget or visibility of archiving their spaces in new ways.
So they’ll still have the same overall value but they’ll have different day to day needs with it.
– So, I would think of Matterport in this MatterPak that enabled this As-Built to be possible is disruptive in an extraordinarily good way in terms of saving money, saving time, and maybe a third is the all the different use cases, that once you’ve created the Matterport Tour, if you created the MatterPak or you’ve created the CAD, you have all these different use cases of it.
Is there anyone in this that feels threatened? You walk in because it’s going to, it literally, it’s not that you’re going to measure faster or you’re going to take pictures faster, it’s a whole different way of capturing the visuals and the data.
So does anyone feel threatened in this conversation about, they’re going to lose their job, it’s, I can’t go out and keep taking my pictures, I can’t go out and do my measurements?
– So it’s a shift in the industry overall.
So the companies that are getting on board, so there’s always the people that are ahead of the curve and then there’s people that are behind the curve. So the ones that are always going to be the naysayers, those are just going to be, they’re always going to be that way and the opportunity is to not focus on them.
There’s going to be the people that are leading it, that will optimize this technology to their advantage, same thing with a project manager of, you know, you can look at, you know, tax software, it’s tax season, as an accounting firm, but now everyone has TurboTax.
Well, now people can get a basic idea, say like, I can either say, you know, all I wish TurboTax didn’t take my job, or I can actually leverage the basics now that my customers have a baseline understanding of what their taxes look like, now I can provide them those solutions of what only my degree can really show you how to exacerbate and accentuate.
So they’ll always be those kinds of people, but the answer is the solution of how they do it is still not a one size fits all, how each company customizes taking that scan and their solution is what helps make them successful in the first place.
– I heard you say, reach out to director above or project managers at big brands. What about architects? What about general contractors?
– Yes.
– Who else?
– Yeah, no, so it could happen with just a general contractor that might work on say, five of those locations of the hundreds like we talked about. So they would be able to see the need of, they wouldn’t capture the As-Built because at the time the general contractor was, you know, given the job, they’ve already been provided and As-Built to base off their information, but say maybe they’ve seen this scan for, you know what, construction monitoring, then they would be able to know to more accurately bid that they can use this for them next time for other uses other than As-Builts.
The architect though, would use us to go out for them to create the As-Built for project.
– And that would be unless the client actually created the As-Built before they even put it out on bid to different architects?
– Correct.
– So it’s not a one size fits all. It kind of it depends, it depends, it depends, and an architect could originate the project, the general contractor could originate the project, but I think I’m hearing if you’re talking about in business development, you really want to zero in on the big brand.
– Yes, and if you’re in a place where, say, it’s an architectural firm and say they put out, you know, 20 projects a year, because they can only travel to 20 locations.
Now, you supported them, and you can get them to 10 more locations to create As-Built, which speeds up their time, they can actually bid on 10 more projects a year. So it’s kind of helping other people understand what this technology can do and how to leverage that, will really help other people understand how this can grow into their solution and be customizable for their specific business solution.
– So let’s talk about those different users of the As-Built, because I think understanding what the different use cases are, perhaps is another way when you’re talking to a potential client for an As-Built, while you’re talking about this is going to save you money, this is going to save you time, plus, here are 20 other ways that you can use this.
I thought it might be helpful to talk about with those other state, let’s call them stakeholders. So I’m a general contractor. So, again, let’s go back to this example, I’m a big brand, I have 1,000 stores to refresh across, retail stores across America to refresh, I’m going to do 200 a year. I’m right at the beginning of deciding, are we going to send out an architect who is going to take many, many, many, many, many pictures and do many, many, many measurements and construct the space like they’ve always done or whether we’re going to use Matterport Service Providers across America to do this.
So I’m a general contractor, if the if the brand is going, Oh, and I should say if there’s a general contractor, I’m assuming there’s general contractors all across America, it’s not necessarily one general contractor. So the general contractor gets an As-Built, would they get an As-Built or no, no, they won’t see anything until the architect has actually created the space for the general contractor?
– Yes, that’s right, that latter part. There will need to be an As-Built because the general contractor needs something to bid on in terms of assessing how much work is needed. So the square footage of the place, the dimensions, what goes where.
So they’ll need to know all of those things to do that. So they’ll need that as built to start with at the minimum For those kind of programs to be able to give some sort of how much it’s going to cost for them to build it.
– Awesome, so there’s a use case for the As-Built, I think maybe as a Matterport Service Provider, if I just understand what the different use cases of the As-Built, we now know,
– Yeah.
– There’s a faster way, a less expensive way for a big brand to get As-Builts. But I think it’s probably helpful for a Matterport Service Provider to understand the difference.
– Yeah. Now, like so in real estate, for instance, commercial real estate, these big brands are looking for different like sizes and parcels of space to go in.
And for their process of vetting the space, they call it due diligence. So they’re going to understand their space, not just take the landlord’s word for it, but really know what that space is in terms of its dimensions.
– So is that As-Built in originating with the company that owns the building, that’s trying to lease it to the big brand?
– So they may or may not have the As-Built.
– Would they pay for the As-Built in order to make the sale to?
– They could, so that on the end of the commercial real estate team, so if it’s a large box, a small strip mall, it could be any of those spaces, they could hire a Matterport provider to scan and create the As-Built. So then they can go out to try to get potential customers to come into the space.
Or reciprocally, if it’s the end customer who they’ve narrowed down a space, but they want to verify what they’ve been told from the landlord, that’s their due diligence to make sure that everything’s aboveboard in terms of what they’re getting.
And they would send in a provider to scan the space and you know, get that MatterPak, to then create that CAD file, to just verify, you know, what they were given is, you know, true, as is.
– Okay, so due diligence for this space. You mentioned the general contractor, I’m going to imagine their subcontractors that would find the As-Built helpful.
– Yes, very much so.
– How does the sub in electrical or plumbing or mechanical, how would they use the As-Built?
– Yes, so right now and the way we’ve seen it is it originates at a kind of top down approach, but they’ll take that same As-Built and scan to help them understand bidding for the project, what’s the current layout for the electrical to see if it’s the same, you know, say like, it’s the same amount of, you know, plumbing needed to retrofit one space to another.
So they’ll have a chance to utilize and visualize all of that to do it.
We haven’t seen it and where we’ve reached out to say, maybe like an electrical company, like you know, electrician of nationwide scale of like hiring us to do and As-Built, and then then giving it to someone else because it’s just one slice of the pie so to speak. But it very well could happen if there was the right person of, I’d rather get the visibility from you guys, and then, you know, we can use that instead of going on site to do our own site walk throughs.
– There’s a term clash detection, does that come up in As-Built at the very beginning or not really?
– Not really.
– Not really, okay. Another constituent was the architect, And if they are handed in As-Built, are they going to still go out and do measurements of the space? No, no, they’re going to accept the As-Built as provided by the client.
– Yeah, so just think they’re still going to go on sites, because what the information you’re providing them isn’t enough for them to put a stamp on it to continue working. For all of the other things that they’ll need to get verifiable measurements for.
So the information that that Matterport scan and MatterPak creates is like a low level of detail. So it’s enough to understand what the box is, and the basic spatial planning for a space which is good for budgeting, you know, getting a rough idea of what things are, but the architect will still have to go on site to verify anything that they need to in order to feel comfortable to put that stamp on that document.
So it’s kind of spatial planning, and they do the clock work, fine tuning to that As-Built to make it, you know, ready to go full fledged floor plan.
– So I think I heard three things there James, for an architect or space architect, space planner, is good enough to propose your design of how that space would be interpreted for that big brand in that particular space.
– Yes.
– Second, it’s good enough for The general contractor and the subs to figure out how to quote floor covering, paint, tile, it’s enough for quoting on a project.
So good enough for space planning, good enough for quoting, not good enough if you’re actually going to be cutting glass, making some measurements where, and I’m going to imagine in the construction space anyway, the rule of thumb is, whoever is the sub is actually going to measure that space themselves and not accept anyone else’s measurements anyway, because they’re going to be held accountable if it doesn’t fit.
– That’s right.
– So I could. Engineers, how might an engineer use an As-Built?
– Yeah, so they needed to know kind of like in the basement of where the equipment is, space layout, the same thing of putting in what is there, like, you know, the biggest thing for the engineer, it’s the internal space of what this information collects.
So as long as it’s interiors have visibility of what you can collect with that, and there’s no obstruction of what they need to see, then this could very well be used also for that same level of information. I would say it is harder for that MEP because a lot of the things that are in a Matterport that you would see when you scan it could be hidden, because of you know, where they’re going into a ceiling or underground, which this information doesn’t collect.
So you would have to be a little bit more detailed in what you’re collecting from a visual standpoint, but very much so, you know, could be used all the same.
– Then, since we are talking about big brands, multiple locations, multiple states across the United States, I could imagine there’s always been a lot of travel by architects, engineers, contractions owner, owner rep, et cetera. So is there a line item where this is saving a huge amount of travel?
– Yes, so travel is probably the biggest direct cost savings that you are going to be able to provide someone, because you’re going to give them the same visibility.
So nothing is done in a bubble, when they hand it off to an architect, when they hand it off to somebody else to be responsible for it, it’s not like they look the other way and just wait till it’s done and they accept it, all during that lifecycle of something from pre-construction to execution, and everything in between, to all the way to completion, there is somebody going on site to inspect the progress of that work.
And whether it’s actually the general contractor sending a site super to go check on it, you know, daily weekly, the end customer bringing a project manager, walking through for phase hand overs, there’s a lot of travel involved in a space.
So being able to give that visibility by someone that’s done locally is a huge time saver and cost saver that they would immediately see. And then after that it’s the other value that they can get out of it.
– James, today is Tuesday, March 24th 2020. COVID-19, coronavirus, there are shelter in place orders in many states in the United States today, travel is nearly stopped, is scanning still going on today and this is enabling those who normally traveled to be able to virtually travel to an As-Built in order to be making decisions?
– Yes, so you know, strange times we’re living in, right? And, you know, we wish everyone like, you know, being safe and following The rules of their local state and governments have, you know, guidance of what to do. So right now, as a service provider throughout the United States and Canada, we’re fully operational in terms of we have the ability to go on a space. So it’s just up to the state and local municipalities, if we are allowed to travel.
The nice part is about the scan and the work, as its local, there’s no airplane so the risk is much lower for the service technicians that are going because there is no travel. And just incidentally, the kind of visual perspective that we give teams to work off of, is done by one person.
So there’s social distancing already built into the visibility that we give. So yes, the work is still going on in some locations, like in California, in San Francisco, in New York City they’re kind of on halt, same thing in Puerto Rico.
But and so we’re observing those, you know, state and government objectives. But everywhere else where they’ll still allow people to open a space to allow us to go in, we are in continually providing that visibility which is really helping their teams still perform because work still has to get done even though you’re working from home.
– So the Matterport plus MatterPak to create the Autodesk Revit file, and internet I think we’re talking about Revit, but this actually may be one of a number of programs so if it’s for the architect, they may be working in SketchUp if they have a different CAD program, but easier just simply say Revit. So there are prior to this COVID-19 coronavirus, there is a lot of travel involved in a big brand doing a refresh of 200 locations a year.
I imagine that travel is coming from the corporate people at various titles that need to go on location from perhaps general contractors that are regional, perhaps architects that are regional, perhaps there’s people, companies that own the buildings, the space, but they’re not located where that space is. So I could imagine before coronavirus, there was a ton of travel.
And today, there’s not a lot of travel. So this whole discussion today about As-Builts as a way to help through these challenging times to keep companies moving forward by being able to go there virtually rather than physically.
– Yes, so then no travel, like air travel specifically required. Just getting in a car, being able to get to a space to give a team the visibility of a space whether it’s a an As-Built and creating that dimensional information that they need, because there’s so many people involved in one project, from the third party people of the general contractors and the vendors that need that visibility to help plan to the company at the corporate level of understanding what’s happening, and communicating about a project.
And this gives everybody a level playing field of comprehension, which is the utility of that scan, where everyone understands what the picture is taking, because the Matterport solution is really, you know, above repair on everybody else’s visibility of what they can provide someone in terms of understanding what a space is and what they’re trying to do with it.
– And I could imagine that after we all go, we get done with this coronavirus, that there may be even a shift in how companies do business, to say, hey, we’ve been doing all this travel, we’re now using this Matterport to create that initial As-Built, we don’t really need to travel as much.
So we’re saving people the time and saving them the money of not spending on travel by using a local Matterport Service Provider to do that initial scan to create to help create this As-Built.
– Yes, it’s and that’s just the tip of the iceberg with it of a good way for companies to start, and this might actually enable more companies faster to understand how they can leverage this in their space. And the back end is, all of these work and visibility we’re providing them our new data points to understand how to utilize their space.
So we do ascribe to what we see when we read about Matterport of, you know, creating that digital twin, making sure that you have all these assets of what the visible physical space is, and a digital package enables you to do all work from your desk, from your office in the fields, and it’s all relaying the same information and overlap, so the context is never shifted.
And that’s really important because whether it’s staff turnover, whether it’s you can’t leave the space like where we are now, or you need to repackage and repurpose something quickly, these are all you’d like, solutions that this alternative is already better than the old existing way of doing things.
– So I mentioned I’m in Atlanta, there are big brands here, lots of restaurants, major brands located in Atlanta. I could imagine if I call on a large brand, I might all of a sudden, careful for what you wish for, they might come back and say something like, yeah, this is great.
We love it, we see how this is going to save us money, how it’s going to save us time, we have all these other use cases for it.
We need 100 of these done in, you know, 27 markets and can you get that done? I’m a Matterport Service Provider, I have that opportunity, I can’t handle that business myself. What is it that I do? How do I work with IFTI which is obviously can offer that, or offer Matterport scanning at scale?
– Yes, so, you know, please, if there ever a reason where that arises, you know, we can work with you directly.
And we can work on the relationship of if that person wants to continue to lead the relationship or have us take over.
And we’ll let them pick the marketplace that they want to work with, And we’ll work with them on pricing for their region as well as the national market of what we can do with it. But the nice thing is, we can scale, we can do it fast with the turnaround and, you know, we’re there to be a partner for anyone in the field that’s there whether we would need to call on someone to do work with us or reciprocally.
– So as a Matterport Service Provider, I may help make an introduction from a big brand to you, I may choose to continue to be the point person, perhaps I have a trusted relationship with that big brand, They have the trust in me. Are you transparent to this? Are you not transparent? How does that work?
– Yes, so transparency is important. And I know that it’s a little different because, you know, everyone is, you know, we’re all in a business and we’re trying to make sure that we’re doing right for our customers and for ourselves and for our businesses.
So we like to always take the approach of being as upfront as we can with the work and the fixed rate, and we let them know of ways that we can basically make it mutually beneficial because really what we want is overall that, they can see that they have a trust provider that we’re not going to basically, we’re not going to go around anyone’s back to do work.
We’re there to work together, and if they’ve given us the opportunity, it’s for the solution overall. So we can basically lift everyone, as long as this solution is being used, I think we’re all pushing in the same direction of getting people on track to digitizing their assets.
– So, I’m thinking that, hey, I’ve been doing a lot of residential real estate, I’m trying to move into a space that perhaps there’s more money, more scanning opportunities. Were in my over my head thinking that I’m talking to a big brand and can end up doing 25 markets, 50 markets. Are their pain points that I don’t know what I don’t know in terms of working with a large brand?
– I would say some of the biggest things are just the level of expectation of what is there, so they want the same deliverable, whether it’s one store or the 1,000 stores, and every team thing in between. So if you’re doing it by yourself and you’re scanning it, make sure you don’t go bigger than what you can consistently perform day in and day out, because that is the most valuable resource of what you’re providing them is consistency.
So where are you feel like you can’t be consistent and you should be telling yourself that, that’s when, you know, you should reach out to another provider to see how like somebody else can help with that.
And, you know, maybe a company like IFTI that has, you know, 20 years experience giving consistent deliverables to these clients.
– So I wonder if one of my challenges is related to insurance, I think we carry a million or $2 million in general liability insurance but, am I over my head trying to take on a major brand because of the the amount of insurance that’s required or is the is the paperwork going to kill me, because the large brand is going to have such a large contract that I’m not used to?
Am I going to end getting buried because I’m trying to take it on myself, and there’s this large legal agreement for me to somehow bring in outside counsel to help? Am I going to get stuck big because big brands take a long time to pay? So these kind of reasons why it may make sense that if I actually end up creating an opportunity for multiple markets, to call IFTI.
– Yes, the biggest thing is the way these clients work, which we can all appreciate is, hurry up and wait.
So if somebody asks you to do something, you’re window to getting an answer back that you can feel 100% about his quick, 24, 48 hours, they have a lot of other projects that they’re working on and can find someone else. So if they do happen to call upon you, and you want to be able to help it, but you still have all these questions that are unanswered by you, yes, that’s a good time to call IFTI, reaching out to us and we’ll be able to, you know, take the lead or help you out, assist you during that process, you know, to make sure while they’re paying attention and are interested in the solution that we keep them there.
– Cool, I thought maybe we take a look at one of the pages on your website here.
– Perfect.
– If they want to reach out to you ifti.com.
– Yes.
– Ifti.com. I clicked on the 3D imaging tab here, https://ifti.com/3d-imaging … And so this is a description of IFTI/PROVision services. So this is a description for big brands to understand the services that IFTI is providing.
– Yes, so we just give a lot of documentation of what else is out there, how you can get that visibility. And there’s a, you know, quote button, a demo, feel free to call us. But it also gives you the opportunity, like we discussed today to also review a lot of those stakeholders, of how they would use it.
So if you need that information to help you get a timeframe of, you know, this is what they are understanding, this is what they’re listening for. It’s a good cue card for you to learn to get yourself up to speed if you’re entering into the space.
– Before we wrap it up, are there some questions that I haven’t asked you that I should have asked you?
– So I think you were able to like ask a lot of the questions of really where we are in these uncertain times with traveling visibility, I just wanted to add to that. So there are another number of markets that are wanting to use the visibility. And that’s where people cannot be mobile because it creates another great platform for visibility.
So, you know, say it’s education and, you know, viewing campus tours while they can travel to a campus right now. But, you know, if you’re able to get in there to give, you know, parents and students potential walk through those things are very, you know, high point of mind.
And a lot of companies right now are looking for solutions of how they could keep their workflows going. So if you’ve had a client in the past, it is a good time to reach back out to them now, to let them know, there’s a solution that involves zero air travel, and to talk with them, because right now, people are trying to figure out what’s the best solution to keep things moving, and they might need a little nudge and a little help to let them know that you’re there. So it is a good time for outreach, because it does help them overall continue working, because that’s really what all this is about.
– Terrific. Is there another question I haven’t asked you that I should ask?
– No, the As-Built information I think is very relevant for what we’re doing, and it is the key market, whether it’s new construction and once the frame up to make sure it’s their. due diligence, remodels and refreshes.
These are large scale things that are happening all across the country. There’s thousands of retailers and restaurants there in the US and Canada, and if you happen to work with one of them, and you think there’s an opportunity to do more, you know, feel free to reach out IFTI, we’ll be there to help you and see if we can help expand your business or work with you to, you know, grow it.
– And the best way to get in touch with you?
– Yeah, you can reach out to me directly. My email is James.Duffy, James.Duffy@ifti.com, or you can just go to our website ifti.com/3dimaging, and you can call and reach out to us at 1-800-490-3657 and fill in a quote if you had any.
– Terrific, before I wrap it up, you will have a video on your website here. I just like to play it’s a couple minutes.
– Sure.
– It’s short. So, James, our show today, How Matterport Service Providers Can Make Money Scanning As-Builts. I think what I heard today, part of my key takeaways is, Matterport Service Providers can save a big brand a ton of money, a lot of time, provide other use cases for the As-Built to be used by lots of different stakeholders in ways that perhaps were not possible before there was Matterport and MatterPak. Anything else they add to that?
– No, it’s what we’re doing overall is we’re carving a new niche for ourselves in between, basically, somebody that can go in the field and take pictures and what an architect does. So presenting that new fields to this audience is providing them a great value. And, you know, we’re all doing a great service for that.
– Awesome, James, thanks for being on the show today.
– All right, thank you for having me, Dan, appreciate it.
– You bet, we’ve been visiting with James Duffy, Vice President Business Development for IFTI and it’s Division, PROVision in the San Francisco Bay Area. I’m Dan Smigrod, founder of the We Get Around Network Forum, and you’ve been watching WGAN-TV Live at 5.
– Thank you.
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